Comments on: Reading Blog: Knowing Christ Today, Chapter 1

By: Pastoralia » Reading Blog: Knowing Christ Today, Chapter 4

Pastoralia » Reading Blog: Knowing Christ Today, Chapter 4 — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:07:56 +0000

[...] in my series on Dallas Willard’s latest book, Knowing Christ Today. Previous Entries: Intro | Chapter 1 | Chapter 2 | Chapter 3) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath [...]

By: Pastoralia » Reading Blog: Knowing Christ Today, Chapter 3

Pastoralia » Reading Blog: Knowing Christ Today, Chapter 3 — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:04:10 +0000

[...] in my series on Dallas Willard’s latest book, Knowing Christ Today. Previous Entries: Intro | Chapter 1 | Chapter [...]

By: Jason Coker

Jason Coker — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:29:01 +0000

Jonathan - I agree, and there’s good wisdom in what you’re saying (and Paul has something to say about that doesn’t he? 1 Cor 8). Perhaps an important point to make is that, for Willard at least, saying religion involves real knowledge doesn’t in any way discount the limited nature of our knowledge. In fact, just the opposite. The same is true of every form of knowledge, including good science. Genuine knowledge of God develops humility, particularly because of the nature and subject of that particular form of knowledge.

Thanks for pitching in.

By: Jonathan Brink

Jonathan Brink — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:33:39 +0000

Another way to state it is that our interest for knowing what God looks like is so we can control people. It’s a bent we have because of the shadow of death. It’s easier to control people using God that release the people to actually know grace. This is the history of religion, especially within the Mesopotamian world, but even within Christendom.

By: Jonathan Brink

Jonathan Brink — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:25:28 +0000

I don’t think Willard’s interest is in morality per se. I should have stated so. I love his work. But it is humanity’s interest. Much of the development of knowledge is for the sake of creating systems of morality and law, which rub up against grace. We’re uncomfortable with the freedom we have so we bent towards the law.

I think the tension then when we are engaging knowledge about God is to make our image knowledge, as though we have a perfect image. When does the certainty of our image become a limiting idol. That’s the razor’s edge for me. Faith is a state of tension with not knowing fully.

By: Jason Coker

Jason Coker — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:19:57 +0000

Hi Jonathan - This really does open quite can of worms doesn’t it? Willard doesn’t have a problem with imperfect knowing, but would certainly would affirm a genuine knowing. Hence, his lifelong work with Husserl’s material.

I’m sure it’s me, but I’m not quite tracking with you on “knowing, morality, and the state of grace.” It sounds like you’re saying that the pursuit of knowledge can become a power play that eliminates grace. If so, Willard touches on that in this chapter, but overall the book is not about the abuse of knowledge-as-power as much as it is about reconciling faith and actual knowledge – a divorce he sees as rather debilitating to the faith.

By: Jonathan Brink

Jonathan Brink — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:08:47 +0000

I’m curious how much Willard has studied cognitive neuroscience. There is the idea that our thoughts cannot perfectly represent reality. So we are constantly living in “the razors edge” between knowing nothing (solipsism) and full knowing (objectivism).

My concern with the knowledge is around morality. Too often our interest in knowledge is more about knowing what is right and right, devoid of grace, as opposed to actually knowing God in a state of grace. The cross reveals a God that is entirely comfortable with grace and yet we long for and continually construct morality systems that tie people down.