I too find the theology discussions interesting and enlightening but I am always rather shocked 7 surprised when Christians attack others and get down right nasty for disagreeing with them?!

I can get that way when I feel like someone is attacking one of my children, grandchildren, some I love deeply…………..maybe some people feel that way about their theology?!!!

I too was raised Southern Baptist, had the same experience and the same outcome as Julie. I agree that Piper’s point could have been the danger of watering down Hell……….. I just don’t think threatening people with Hell actually works anymore:)

As for your second post on Calvin, theology and what is important to you……..well, my thoughts and feelings exactly:)

I just see no reason why the US would be more important than china or Micronesia, and why J Edwards would be more important than J Wesley (or J Wimber) or even Sadhu sundar sigh or St-Francis… I just don’t see why the name of Edwards would have more authority than any other figure in the great and diverse tradition of christianity…

All else that I could say has been said already by a lot of other commenters here… good discussion…

shalom

1. Nobody here has disrespected Piper. Some have merely disagreed with him.

2. In the video, Piper only refers to “Edwards.” Unless someone is familiar with Piper’s interest in him, it’s entirely reasonable they wouldn’t know he was referring to Jonathan Edwards. Not everyone who reads or comments here is so entrenched in theological discourse that the name “Edwards” immediately brings to mind the 18th century theologian. Moreover, that’s not a bad thing.

3. Not everyone who commented on this post is a U.S. citizen (e.g. “one of the greatest revivals in your country!”).

Your inability to participate in civil discourse and engage in sympathetic consideration of others viewpoints is truly astonishing. Your latest comments are insulting to the other people here and the level of shrillness you’ve degenerated to is roughly that of a spoiled child. It’s time to grow up or go away.

The very fact that a number of you had never heard of Jonathan Edwards is astounding – considering he was involved in one of the greatest revivals in your country! –The Great Awakening anyone?

I suggest you stop focussing on your silly little, trife and weak emergent centered garbage and read the men of old and your Bibles.

Cut your teeth on the Rock.”
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Matthew – here’s the thing. Until I was in my early 30′s, I had no idea who John CALVIN even was! And I grew UP in (as I said above) a HUGELY evangelical, fundamentalist denomination.

Theology fascinates the DAYLIGHTS out of me. I LOVE getting into discussions of that matter…..BUT do you know WHY I don’t find it important to actually KNOW theology backwards and forwards? Do you want to know WHY I don’t find it the least bit important (nor did it bother me that I wasn’t aware of whom) to know whom Calvin, or (now) Jonathan Edwards (though I may HAVE heard the name before) was? Do you want to know WHY I don’t find it important to know what Calvinism is as compared to all the OTHER “isms” out there?

BECAUSE it’s NOT vital for mine, yours or ANYONE else’s SALVATION! None of any of the above is VITAL for our salvation in Jesus Christ. Believing that he IS the son of God, that he WAS born of a virgin, that he IS apart of the trinity, that he DID die on the cross for our sins, that he DID rise again from that Cold, dark grave, that he IS sitting on the right hand side of our Father, that Whosoever believeth in HIM shall NOT parish but have ever lasting life – that we are saved by (his) Grace through (our) faith (in him) ALONE! That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. So you can talk Calvinism, theology, Edwards all you want….no problem BUT it’s not going to get you a better seat in heaven or even reserve one for you in the first place.

Have a good day.

Yeah, a few people have mentioned that in similar ways above.

“You can believe hell is ceasing to exist or being eternally tormented, neither sounds like a good option to me but people who reject God will say, “I’ll just party in hell with all my friends” or they say “I’ll just cease to exist” and they really don’t care either way.”

I agree. However, I personally think *maybe* (perhaps) Piper’s point might have been – let’s not lose sight of how horrible hell really is because depending on the view (one might have about it) it can be easy to forget what’s at stake and some people may actually start to believe that hell “may not be that bad after all”.

Some people – if given the option – might just think it’s better to eventually not exist any more than to be tormented for all eternity. (the lesser of the evils so-to-speak). That if they can “hang on in hell for a while” then they will just cease to exist anyway and therefore….no more punishment. Though, I do agree again that neither scenario sounds appealing to me in the least.

This clip only allowed us about 5 min. worth of Piper’s preaching (not enough to get the full “story” or glimpse of his style of preaching), however, anyone who has spent ANY amount of time in a free will baptist church (or denominations similar to it) is very used to hearing those tactics. Personally, it’s one of the many reasons I left that church a decade and a half ago. There’s so much about in the message of Christ’s love, his forgiveness, mercy, grace (and so on) to win others to Christ. Because these tactics that Piper *seemed* to be using can be seen as “scare tactics” – where others come to Christ based on the fear of what will happen to them if they don’t – people with my background (and similar background) will just automatically be turned off by it and just numb to it’s effects.

Again though, we didn’t exactly see his whole message so what came off as typical scare tactics could have been instead something different and misinterpreted. I’ll be willing to leave the door of opportunity open.

The very fact that a number of you had never heard of Jonathan Edwards is astounding – considering he was involved in one of the greatest revivals in your country! –The Great Awakening anyone?

I suggest you stop focussing on your silly little, trife and weak emergent centered garbage and read the men of old and your Bibles.

Cut your teeth on the Rock.

What if all these preachers and leaders stopped wasting all their time and energy on arguing and condemning each other for their differing theological opinions and started using all that energy to join forces and actually disciple the body of Christ to have a real relationship with Christ and therefor have the power to really change the world?