wow. This explains why my brain shuts off when I hear people talking about excellence.

That’s your church!?

I’m so there!

Does anyone else see the irony in this coming from North Point?

It reminds me a little of Willow Creek and their REVEAL study.

But I’m grumpy that way.

wow! that was good – in a sad kind of way… =?

Bryan - Yup. “Excellence” usually = control.

Bill - Well, satire isn’t quite the same thing as repentance I guess.

Jason - You’re too liberal for our church. Don’t you go to Fuller?

Josh - Precisely my thoughts as well : )

ksjdhflkabsvkljhsdfnotchurchaskdjfhgrumble

@Bill – Right on. Why is that I can’t even dip my toe in “the church” anymore without finding that the first words coming to my mouth are expletives. @NorthPoint – are you serious with that? I hope that they’re brave enough to show their churches that video and confess their formula for engineering the emotions of worship rather than simply showing it to pastors at a conference all tongue and cheek.

@Jason – we had some people we know over to the house a few months ago to talk about what is “next.” I don’t even know how to put words around what I’m trying to say here, but whatever it means to not be whatever we were before… Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, for me the end of the conversation was, “I just don’t care.” I don’t CARE if it ever takes a shape or form of any kind. I just want to BE and breathe and live in this space called believing for awhile and see what comes of that. If these other people want to breathe along with us, then great. But for now, I’m still at this place of replusion for anything which resembles that which was.

Sorry, I’m still chuckling (calmed down from a laughter). However, I do have to wonder….what do their bulletins look like? Hmmmmm….

Oh yeah, BTW – is there something wrong with your website or is it on my end? I could only access this site through your facebook link. When I clicked on my Jasoncoker.net link – it just keeps saying “Index of….” and brings up nothing.

“we call it… growtivation!”

classic

Drew - Akismet interpreted your comment as spam : )

Angie - Words fail me. It feels like 2005 was a million years ago.

Julie - A while back I switched my domain back to pastoralia.org. Yesterday I shut down jasoncoker.net.

Matt - : )

I’m surprised it didn’t interpret the original video as spam.

Surely this hilarious video needs should be a trilogy:

Part II: ‘Slowtivation’ change in slow motion
Part III: “organication’ we’re all Abbots now

With the inevitable Part IV: ‘Smugifcation’ the church of one

Jason - Indeed!

I wonder if this is just done in the spirit of self-deprecating corporate videos. Do they know they are prophesying? (I ask other questions on “Contemporary church” video makes me laugh, and wonder.)

“A while back I switched my domain back to pastoralia.org. Yesterday I shut down jasoncoker.net.”

Yeah, I remembered that after I wrote the comment yesterday (I thought I had made “that change” but obviously didn’t). Thanks for the reminder though.

wow.

Whatever you call it, keep it on that side of the ocean…

@brambonius….LOL, your comment was funnier than the video…I wish we could keep it over here but unfortunately a little island called Australia has already been infiltrated but I guess that’s pretty far from you too.

@reason for video….ARGH!

@Jessa: The vineyard here in Antwerp (Belgium) is only around 30 people on a sunday so I don’t think we’ll ever be able to grow into such a monster…. But some people here have been in hillsongs churches over the ocean (australia, s-africa) so the infiltration is there already…. I don’t know if such a thing would work in our secularised culture anyway…

It all just makes my heart and head hurt. Whatever happened to loving Jesus, and doing what the Father is doing, empowered by the Spirit. How come that seems to be so hard to do anymore?

Either it is a big show, or it is someone pointing out how the big show is really bad and the small group is everything. And then someone says “No, they’re both fine as long as God is in it” and then someone says “Yeah but I got so tired of that that I started this”

I think I’m so churchified and so over-discussed that I’ve somehow forgotten just how to love the people I meet, and ask Jesus how to love them, better — and do that with others who want to do the same.

sigh

A friend of mine (Sean) is planting a Vineyard in Santa Cruz, CA. That is the location of Dan Kimball’s Church. There have been a couple of interesting thoughts expressed in the comments on Kimball’s posting of this video.

I’d love to hear some of you chime in…

2 essential questions:

What is the future of the Western church?

‘What you use to win them, you need to keep them,’ agree or disagree?

Jon - I think that’s probably exactly what it is. It’s good to be able to poke fun at yourself, especially as a church.

Bram - Consider yourself lucky : )

Jessa - No kidding. To the extent that churches try to emulate this sort of thing, I find it nearly impossible to sit through “worship.”

Kieth - Really excellent comments! Thank you for representing a balanced vulnerability. See Angie’s comments above for more of the same perspective.

Steven - “What is the future of the Western Church?” Now THAT is the 64 million dollar question. I think we can look forward to more of what Bram (see above) is experiencing. I think we’ll see a consolidation and intensification of the superstar-driven megachurch, a further fragmentation along traditional sectarian lines among conservative evangelical churches, and an overall marginalization of Christianity in general.

“What you use to win them, you need to keep them,’ agree or disagree?”

I 100% agree. I think another way (a more accurate way) to phrase it (HT: Bill Kinnon) is “What you win them with, is what you win them to.”

Bottom line: when we use this kind of ecclesiology we aren’t winning them to Jesus, we’re winning them to “growtivation.”

“What you win them with, is what you win them to.”

Very true, very true and very well put – as well as a great reminder for any Christian, leader or no, when witnessing to the lost and helping other Christians to grow.

*mesmerizing stare at monitor*

i feel the need…the need to get growtified…

Oddly enough, the reminder of “WYWTWIWYWTT” came during a conversation with a rather well known church music director who works at a MegaMegaChurch behind the Orange Curtain in SoCal. He’s older than me (and I’m ancient, eh) and he heard it when he was in seminary – back in the day of horse drawn carriages, no doubt. Hmmm.

Bill -

Wow, ironic. I’m only a few miles from the Orange Curtain…I wonder if I know who that is.

When I watched this I have to confess that I laughed my head off, and then I thought oh help I do this to some extent too…..
Not the excellence, I mean we have no carpet, no lights, no big band, just a small group of Christians trying to follow God as best we can trying to do church any way that works.

My own perspective is that we need every type of church, in every way, all of them working together. Every church takes on the personality of their pastor to some degree and we’re kidding ourselves if we think that isn’t going to happen. All we can do is the best we can, I don’t think I’m ever hoping our small church plant looks like that, but I would like to have a sunday without sound gremlins or sound bouncing off the walls. In some ways we’re all striving for excellence, at least if you’re an overachieving perfectionist, then I certainly am, so I’m still ambivalent about the whole thing……

That was awesome.